Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "whoaaa...":
I'm curious--why are you doing IVF when you already have children, and a few of them at that? I don't mean to sound insensitive and maybe there is a more diplomatic approach. But I'm thinking also of the woman (and Dr. I may add) who just had octuplets and lives with her mother. Anyway, dealing with the unnatural and horrible tragedy of a lost child is something that would seem to consumea great deal of your time and energy. Do you have it to give to another child when you already have a number of them? I don't understand the ethics behind a medical professional performing IVF on someone who already has multiple children and also a great deal on their plate. As a mother and psychologist, I know that parents can barely give enough to families with three children of varying ages much less multiples. Sorry to be blunt--I am, but parents must give thought to the emotional, mental, and physical needs of the children they already have. When there is a loss, it is an almost insurmountable feat. I hope you have a lot of support from close family--the children will need it.
Wednesday, February 4, 2009
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28 comments:
ps- i think psychologists have the most fucked up kids of all.
I was going to email you last night to see if you saw this comment. I had gone back to the previous post to read the follow up comments and my jaw dropped when I read this. I don't even know what to say, but don't most people who go into psychology do so because they are fucked up themselves? I know a few and they are definitely questionable. Anyway, it's an ignorant thing to ask, and it's even more funny when ignorant statements like this come from supposedly smart people (assuming you have to be smart to get your PhD). But hey, it's anon's world, and we are just living in it.
Psychologist my ass. Let's see, the guiding principle of any medical professional? First do no harm. Why would any self respecting mental health 'professional' go around trolling blogs and leave a comment like that? To compare you with that fucked up nightmare out here, a single mother with 6 kids who lives with her parents, who filed for bankruptcy and had their house foreclosed on who then somehow gets a doc to do IVF on her and has 8 more kids...give me a break. On top of that to discount your grief and your desire to have another child (as every single one of us here in db land did or does, at least from my observations), as part of your recovery tells me that "ANON" is nothing more than another troll who wants to jump into someone elses business and pass judgments off on them without having the balls or the decency to leave their name. What an asshole, chicken shit piece of worthless garbage. And NO WAY is she a psychologist...unless she got her degree from some bogus online university for people who are too stupid to go to real schools.
And, obviously they also don't know enough about blogland to know that you can track them down by the tracking info they left when they left the comment in the first place. Please, Charmer, do what Antigone did and post who they are, so we can all go dump shit in their world too. Pretty please!!!
Speaking of you and your future, any news to share???
xxoo
WTF?
She can suck it.
I have a long stream of obscenities running through my head. Judgy McJudgerton can suck it, as My Reality just said.
And psychologist? Yah, you are paid to sit there and listen, shut the fuck up.
Well, I'm not a psychologist-- I'm a marriage and family therapist and I am appalled that a "professional" would leave such a comment. How many children you choose to have is entirely your decision. I know people who have trouble raising one child and others doing exceptionally well with six. If you have the love in your heart and the energy and means to care for another child or children then no one should should feel entitled to say anything other than "I wish you the very best luck."
I'd like to echo the above comments, that doesn't sound like 'psychologist' speak.
Well, I know you thought about this. I know you made that spontaneous, from your heart decision. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I know that you will live up to your responsibilities (and we'll all be here to help keep you sane when you have twins running your life!)
Yes, and any news on stickiness?
Anon, Yes, indeed you are because you are too chicken shit to tell us who you really are! You, can suck my ass!
Charmed, obviously, this person (anon) has too much time on her hands to be reading a blog in dbl and commenting on such things. The lady with the octuplets is nothing like you and anon can eat me if she thinks otherwise! Psychologist? My rear end! If she is I can guarantee her client base is NILL!
ooo, I'm steamed now!
I have been following your blog for some time now but I don't believe I have felt the need to comment until now. I honestly can't believe this woman, another mother, could write something like that. It is your business to decide how many kids are enough for you and your family, and not hers to judge. It would be another thing if you had posted that you decided to implant 8 embryos!
I have three young children of my own, ones that were entirely too easy to make and bring into the world--only in the last few years have I realized how lucky I am for that. I have a dear friend that lost a healthy child for no reason (SUDC) at 18 months, so I have been near to the loss of a child and I know it isn't something that anyone can fathom, nor should they.
I wish the best for you, and you're right--I always use those exact words that it the psychologists who have the most fucked up kids.
~Annie
O!M!F!G! What chickenshit concern troll. Blergh. Why, oh why did I read this at the tail end of my lunch? The lunch, it's now trying to come back up... Ugh...
Anyyyyyyway, if it makes you feel better, I recently tore a new one to a "friend," college roommate actually, who is a shrink, but was completely insensitive and so bloody clueless wrt to A over the last two years... I included in my little ripping o'da'new one a tirade about how I couldn't believe she didn't get from her professional training that everyone grieves the way they grieve and it's none of her beesewax to imply in any way her judgment of how we do that in our own lives. Her answer? She tries not to apply her professional training to her friends, cause then it feels funny. I damn near fell right over. There are some things, dear, that they teach you in school that are just good emotional hygiene. Develop judgment to tell you which those are and then USE THEM. Ma point? Same applies to this here concern troll, if she be really a psychologist.
Also? Really? Three living ones is the limit then? Or is it just the limit for DBMs? Cause if we can handle more, we are clearly not spending enough time and energy on the grieving? Is that the logic here? Greaaaaat then-- I suppose this is according to the new guidelines from the Concern Troll Grief Authentication Agency. Where do I submit my yearly evaluation materials now?
Holy Crap some people are so f'ing stupid they should not be allowed to waste our oxygen! Jbean
ZOMFG, concerned citizen trying to fix the world, one blog at a time, ANONYMOUSLY! Where to begin:
1) If indeed you are a professional, which I sincerely doubt given the fact that you even posted this, why in god's name would you do it anonymously? Wouldn't you want to actually enter in a dialogue and discuss things? You know, FOR THE CHILDREN?
2) I'm not sure about y'all in the psychological biz, but I happen to know a number of families with 4 children. This is purely anecdotal, but they all seem incredibly close, and the siblings have much closer relationships than those siblings I know from families with less. None had to live in their cars, or eat beans from cans, and social services was never called. And frankly, even if they DID eat beans and sleep in tents, they all seem quite happy. So, um, could you 'splain this point again? What was your point?
3) In case you hadn't actually READ the blog, this woman here writing is married with job. Not divorced and living with her parents.
4) Again, in case you missed some reading, she had triplets (and I think we all say, "woot!") and then rather surprisingly found herself pregnant again. Surprising, because it didn't take a million $ and years of treatment. And she apparently had a sit down with herself, husband, and any relevant deities, and decided to keep this child.
Who then died on her due date.
And my point is: She's already been through this point in the process, the point where she decides with the important people (not blog trolls) that she can handle it, and that, lo, *she wants it.* She wants another child.
Which is what she's trying to do here, seeing as how she kinda had her family plan wrapped up around the last one.
5) Grieving moms can chew gum and walk at the same time. It's hard. Believe me. But I'm willing to bet you have patients undergoing cancer treatments while losing their jobs who may have a parent dying in the background, and they still make time to come see you, yes? Do you tell them to can the cancer appointments? Life goes on. And she's thought about this, and decided that what's best for her and her family, is for her to have another child, and her children to have a sibling. And that's her choice. And it's sound and solid.
Please quit reading outliers into everyone you read here. It's not healthy for people her, and most certainly not healthy for your professional intellect.
Wow. what the fuck is wrong with that chick. I don't even know what to say. (( Hugs ))
Delurking to give that woman the finger.
Unless a person has been in our shoes, I always take what they say with a grain of salt.
In this case, a whole bucket of salt!
What BS!
If that anonymous poster really is a psychologist (which I seriously doubt after reading her comment), she should speak up with her name so we can send that note to her boss. Not only is it unprofessional, it's just ignorant and not appropriate to the situation (dealing with the loss of a child, and infertility). Even with no medical degree of any kind, I can see that.
and who made her in charge??? Every child is a gift and who is she to say your limit. Praying you get good news soon!
Ok, I usually lurk and haven't yet commented on your lovely blog, but this woman is incredibly out of line. I am so sorry that there are people so callous and rude that they actually feel entitled to say something like that. And she makes it almost worse by mentioning that she's a psychologist - I mean she acts like that gives her a right to behave this way. If she would hop down from her high horse she might see that NO ONE has a right to act like that.
By the way, I'm getting my doctorate in clinical psych right now, and while I'm trying not to mind the above comments, I actually didn't go into it because I'm fucked up. I'm chronically ill, and I got some pretty tremendous help dealing with all the shit that causes as a young person from a really wonderful psychologist, so thought I'd try to pass it on. I'm not planning on fucking my kids up, either. Might be nice to just keep this about ONE PERSON who did something really horrible (i.e. the original anon. poster) instead of turning it into anything more.
you just reinforced why i do not allow anonymous comments on my blog!
Oh my GOD. WTF. I want to kill anonymous.
I guess I don't have to say anything else. You know if I was in the chair I would have made them put in all 4.
Tell anonymous to go F*** herself. The decision is yours to make, even if you had 100 kids. The decision to do IVF was between you and your husband and instead of being supportive (as if IVF is a peice of cake) she decides to be judgemental. I would respond to her and tell her where she can stick her opinion.
Maybe she doesn't have enough paying clients who atually want her opinion.
Until she has walked in your shoes she can't possibly know what you can handle. That you want to try again shows what a strong woman you are.
And to even compare your situation to that of the woman who had octuplets is beyond me. I agree that she prob got her degree online..if she really has one.
Remember - psychologists become psychologist because they are usually fucked up themselves. This one certainly proves that.
I don't want to open up any more cans of worms, but... as someone who does not regularly read this blog, I can see how someone WHO DID NOT BOTHER TO READ CAREFULLY could have thought you had seven "post-partum" children, not three "post-partum" children and four embryos. This would make you look a little more like the octuplet lady.
IF you already had seven "post-partum" children and STILL decided to put yourself through the financial and emotional ordeal that I imagine IVF must be, well, I too would raise an eyebrow. (I wouldn't be crass enough to leave a comment like that on your blog, but I would mutter to myself and maybe write something on my blog about it.)
I'm not defending this woman at all (anonymous commenters bug me just by being anonymous; and her comment was insensitive and ignorant and out of line), but I'm trying to point out that perhaps she misunderstood the situation (because she did not bother to get her facts straight -- yes, she should take time to find out what she's talking about before she starts talking out of her a$$).
Maybe I felt compelled to say something because of all the psychologist-bashing... please, calling all psychologists names because of this woman's stupidity is as intelligent as my saying all women who try fertility treatments are insane and selfish, because of the octuplets+6 woman in CA. Let's direct the anger at the aggressor, not at a profession. (My mom's a therapist and she would never even think about considering to say anything even remotely close to what this woman did. She would fully support you in your desire to have another child. And, btw, I'm one of four kids. Yes, many would say I'm effed up [including me]; but then again, who isn't?)
I guess, if I may go off on a tangent, I would ask Criss why she says this:
IF you already had seven "post-partum" children and STILL decided to put yourself through the financial and emotional ordeal that I imagine IVF must be, well, I too would raise an eyebrow.
Are you raising that eyebrow higher than you would for a fertile woman who wanted an eighth child?
CG, I'm sorry you got smacked in the ass by that comment. There are about fifty things wrong with it, the most egregious of which is the assumption that you haven't already considered the important question — "Is having another child the right choice for my family?" — yourself.
@Julie: YES.
If I were Queen of the World, I would institute parenting licenses. I wish we could stick an IUD in girls starting at the age of 12 (maybe earlier, with all the hormones we're eating that are screwing our bodies up), and keep it in there until she were at least 21. There would be an evaluation process to decide if the IUD should stay (or, a new one but in, at this point) or not. Pretty much, the same hoops we make adoptive parents go through.
(And I'm only half-joking about it. And that "half" is more like "kind of a lot less than half.")
My mom (the therapist) works with abused children. Just because you have a working uterus does not mean you need to use it; and it does not, in any way, shape or form, make you a "parent."
When fertile women have the 5th or 6th child I raise an eyebrow. And I want to hand them a pack of pills. Again, I don't walk up to the woman and say, "What is WRONG with you???", the same way I'm not going to leave a comment on that woman's blog, like Anonymous did, but I will raise the eyebrow.
What might make others speak up is the fact that the fertile woman can say it was "an accident" and we can't say anything to that because now we're talking about "a gift from God" and what a noble thing it is for her to keep the baby and "make do" (don't get me started on that... or go to my blog to see what I have to say on the issue), while the infertile woman has to go out of her way to get the 8th child, and she has to put herself through a lot, physically and emotionally -- a process I can't even fathom, so I'm not going to try to say anything about it because I know how ignorant I am on the subject and how intimately most if not all of the readers here know it. What I think Anonymous might have been trying to say was, if you already have seven (because she misread/misunderstood) why do you want to expose yourself to the heartache again?
For the record, I'd much rather have an infertile woman choose to have an 8th child FOR THE RIGHT REASONS (read: NOT to get a TV show or endorsements) than see a fertile woman have an 8th "accident" or "surprise."
psychologists/psychiatrists are generally really, really screwed up.
The children of psychologists/psychiatrists are generally even more screwed up.
Exhibit A: My mom
Exhibit B: Me
Or, to put it another way, I wouldn't put too much (or indeed any) stock in this person's wacked out opinions.
I'm usually a lurker too but seen as a few other lurkers have come out of the wood work I just wanted to say that I hope that you haven't taken any of that comment to heart. It would be such a shame if a blog that is meant to be healing is ruined by some dumbass. I just don't understand some people at all. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all as my mother would say!
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